Presumably the amount of energy required would be enormously increased if everyone had a battery carOriginally Posted by jaytip
Presumably the amount of energy required would be enormously increased if everyone had a battery car
Electricity provided by Fossil Fuel and Nuclear Power Stations, again makes the green aspect of it laughable...
Like others I'm waiting for when the government works out how to tax those EV's and the Power Companies raise the nighttime tariff's, then and only then will you see how beneficial they are to run...
I'd love to be proven wrong but I always remember when the Government pushed Diesel cars not too long ago, and look how that turned out...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715
They're already admitting people driving EV's will leave the pot empty...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55358100
Last edited by Martylaa; 14th August 2021 at 20:00.
The power requirements will (currently) be massive beyond the cooker/tumble dryer/kettle balance - what if you have 2 cars?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
If I have my oven and electric boiler on my usage goes up to over 16kw an hour as the boiler alone is 14kw.....massive won’t be the word for it.
We have 2 EVs, but only a single 7kW charge point, and we manage fine. If we were both maxing out the range on them each day and they both needed to be full again by the morning, that would be an issue. But if that was our lifestyle I think we’d have other things to worry about to be honest.
The National Grid don’t seem to be too concerned about that?
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...ehicles-busted
It’s going to need investment, but the government seems willing to do that, at the moment. Private companies are also investing heavily in public charging.
This EV revolution is going to bring new jobs, on street slow charging in cities is already being trialled, if you can plug in where you park your car be that on your drive or on the street, it really isn’t technically impossible.
In the ‘what do you drive’ thread, we all coo over a McLaren (and a very nice car it is too!) but mention of EVs has people in all sorts of a state.
I read that earlier - it seems to have some mixed messages TBH. Whilst I really want the planet to be saved, I am really sceptical with some of the claims and the issues around charge points and the reliability and the widely varying tariffs etc. I am hugely suspicious that the loss of revenue from ICE fuel sales will pile onto EV's and it will effectively be a nil-sum situation in cash terms for the end user.
I appreciate that currently the EV debate is dependant on personal/job circumstances - for us, I could use an EV without issue except there are non that I currently like that are 100% EV and the cost of conversion to those I do is not worth it to me. My wife might struggle occasionally in that she is unable to charge at work and there are non en-route - plus working shifts is not conducive to 'topping up' after being hammered on a night shift.
We never do the 'stop off for food/coffee' when going anywhere and this seems to be a necessary process driving an EV.
I appreciate this is a negative standpoint for sure, but I am still not convinced it's the solution currently.
BTW, I would never buy a McLaren - it's the most effective solution to loosing money after a family stay at Centre Parcs.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
To be fair Chris, neither am I convinced it’s the total solution. I support grey pointy fast flying things for a living, I know that some things it will never be practical to electrify, not in my lifetime anyway!
I can drive for 3 hours at a time in the ID.3, possibly more in the Tesla, and I’m ready for a break by then anyway, but that’s an age thing I’m sure.
I totally get why people are reluctant or have suspicions around EVs, I’m just trying to help people with some of the questions being raised is all. I’ve been doing it for a good while now, but I accept (and have said) that they might not work for everybody yet.
I’m with you on Centre Parcs, when did that get so expensive?! 😳😂
but what about the housing estates, the streets of terraced houses , the high rises etc,etc what is the answer to their charging needs?
People who live in city’s don’t really need cars!
Of course they do not need cars not even the pesky people that inhabit the suburbs the perfect public transport system will meet all their needs.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
I agree with you regards terraced houses and high rises, but most housing estates have drives or at least the room to put a drive in. I’m on a council estate and I have a drive and a garage.
Replying to Chris….forgot to quote
The problem will get worse and worse because natural gas is being phased out slowly. Aren’t all new houses now electric only, mine certainly is? I guess with investment in alternative and renewable energy sources. Utilising areas that are basically scrubland where nobody would want to live like the thousands of miles around train lines that go unused and turn them in to solar farms.
Whatever we do will see a huge increase in power needs so either way something will have to be done
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 14th August 2021 at 19:40.
Tooks, if I may ask, do you know the cost of a full charge on the ID.3?
I’ve shortlisted the MG5 long range and the ID.3 for my next taxi and I was wondering what the cost to charge is.
Cheers.
The ID.3 has a 58kWh useable battery pack, so times that by whatever you pay for electricity at home. Add on about 10% for charging losses.
For me, on my 12p per kWh home tariff and charging from zero, that’s just over £7.50, or just under 4p per mile based on a 200 mile range. Rapid charging at 40p per kWh, the economics change a bit obviously, but that’s only for my longer journeys and I’m not charging from zero for that, it would be more than likely a quick top up to get me home or to my destination.
The ID.3 also has 100kW charging (from low state of charge with a warm battery), it’s supposedly being upped to 125kW with a forthcoming software update, which might be of interest if you’re using it for taxi work.
Thank you.
Whilst I think the pcp or lease model is where I’d go for an EV - with uncertainty over their value retention and the sheer upfront cost - what always makes me chuckle are these deals on 6k or 9k miles a year. If that’s all you’re doing just buy an old banger for £3k, you won’t benefit much from the lack of fuel costs and why spend al that money on something that you hardly use? I think in this instance a new car is mostly about status on the driveway and in the car park isn’t it?
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I get your point but surely that 3k car you’re purchasing was once potentially a 30k car, eventually they’ll filter through and that argument won’t be valid. You could really say that now for an ICE vehicle.
That’s a valid point but my question would be, unless battery technology changes you’ll by that time in its lifespan have a 10 mile range on a 100% charge. Or have to throw mega bucks at new batteries where as now you see lots of old cars what cost very little to run towards the end of there lifecycle.
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Except for the fact that the batteries don’t wear out very quickly and are likely to outlast the lifespan of the car before being repurposed elsewhere.
Whereas the 100k+ mile engine and gearbox is likely on its last legs.
To be fair it’s simply not true, there are many examples of 100k+, 150k cars that have been well maintained and continue to provide service to families. It might have been true in the 70’s & 80’s but it’s a misnomer today.
The issue is normally one of economics when a component failure is close to or greater that the cars value.
That said I suspect we are in for an interesting time as the ability to change individual cells in a battery pack to reduce degradation exists and will become more commonplace reducing the need to replace whole packs, the question in my mind is will we see control systems become a limiting factor.
I’m a fan of EV’s and I absolutely will be getting one, but this statement is just so far wide of the mark.
I’ve got two cars in my household, a 2016 E Class that I bought from new which now has just over 140K on the clock and I’d say over 90% of that mileage is from taxi use which is hard mileage, and I’ve recently bought a 2007 Passat that has 150K on the clock that has surprised me in how smooth and rattle free it is.
100,000 + engines are the norm now many will do 2 or 300000 miles no problems, you’ll have to change the turbo because people don’t cool them down properly, also this fleet manager pandering of long service intervals screws engines.
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I know Tesla state something like 10% battery degradation over 100k miles but reports seem to do better than that. They’ve also recently changed their warranty up-to 8 years I believe and will replace if under 70%. The honest answer is I think no one really knows, I’m sure the electric car regarding the second hand market will find it’s place and fit in. I know from being in the trade for years that people throw huge amounts of money at vehicles that aren’t economically viable to do so and I’m sure electrics cars won’t be any different to that.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 15th August 2021 at 08:24.
As an aside, I understand the concept of spending more on a car than would be economically viable; spending say £1k a year in a £2k car may seem like madness but if the alternative is £200/month on a newer car, it’s still cheaper overall to keep the old one in the road and, if you’ve had it a number of years, you know it’s history and foibles. That’s without considering that we tend to become attached to our cars.
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Last edited by jaytip; 15th August 2021 at 08:48.
There’s certainly an awful lot of housing stock that are unsuitable for EV charging in its present form and that will certainly need to be addressed.
If (or when) induction charging of EVs becomes commonplace, every parking space in the land could conceivably be converted with a loop embedded in the surface.
Moving on from that, dynamic induction has been tried and seen to work; tests loops in series embedded in the road surface, each one providing a small amount of charge as the car passes over it.
Granted, both of the above will be incredibly expensive and entail massive upheaval (or possibly just being done in preparation as roads are resurfaced- no more onerous than converting to smart motorways) but they are a possible solution.
Whichever route is chosen to allow those households to run EVs, a solution will be found. Also worth mentioning that a single weekly charge of a 200 mile EV is good for over 10,000 miles per year.
Last edited by Dave+63; 15th August 2021 at 12:01.
There are quite a few MG5 taxis appearing around us; it’s got to be a no brainer really.
Well, depending on the finance and availability I’ve decided on either an ID.3, ID.4 or an Enyaq.
I’ve discounted the cheaper and more sensible option of the MG5 because I’m simply not a fan of the way it looks and if I decide to move on from the taxis I’d be stuck with a car I don’t like to look at.
I’d happily own and ID.3/4 or Enyaq regardless of my job.
Drove the Enyaq last week, not quite as smooth as the Merc as you’d probably expect but for the money I was rather impressed with it.
I’m going to pop to my local VW and Skoda dealers in the week and try and get a test drive of all three.
You can get an MG5 immediately, the Enyaq will be about six months. I’m not sure about the VWs.
That rules the Enyaq out then.
If I was a taxi driver, I don’t think I’d look any further than the MG5; I had a drive in one and it was really pretty good, especially considering the price.
My daughter loves her ZS EV and she hasn’t had any issues with it whatsoever.
When your car is fully charged the charger shuts off yes as for leaving the car for a few weeks I’ve never done it but I can’t see why it’s not ok
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I test drove the ID 3 and 4 today and the Enyaq just to see what that was like.
Really liked the 3 and 4. I found the regen braking much stronger on the 3 than the 4, almost one peddle driving. I also found the 4 gave slightly better miles per kWh over the same test route. 3.2 kWh’s for the 3 Vs 3.6 kWh’s for the 4.
I was very disappointed with the Enyaq which was a shame because I actually prefer the interior on that to the ID’s. Maybe it was because of the 21” wheels but I found the ride really jiggly and unsettled. The ID’s were a much nicer ride. Less road noise too I found.
I’m going to try the MG5 on Thursday just to see if it’s nice to drive. Who knows, the price and the ride may just win me over.
I test drove the MG5 today for about an hour and a half and it was ok, but only ok. The footrest for your left foot was too close toward you so you would drive with one leg straight(ish) for the throttle and brake but your left leg is bent more. It felt odd and as such I couldn’t find a driving position that I thought felt “right”. It also had a really annoying spoken warning when you broke the speed limit. I know the easy thing to do is drive at the speed limit but there are plenty of roads around my way that are open and empty but are still 30mph roads. Now I’m not a fast driver but I’m not a Sunday driver either and as such I don’t mind doing 35mph on a 30 when conditions allow. If I couldn’t switch off the vocal warning it would be a deal breaker for me.
Question for the EV owners. What is considered a good miles/kWh return? So far on the cars I’ve driven it’s averaged between 3.2-3.6 for mainly town driving.
I’ve got a two hour test drive in an ID.4 tomorrow so that should be ample time for me to get an idea of the real world mileage.
I’ve also noticed that VW has pulled an Apple.
The ID.3 is available with a 45/58/77 kWh battery but the ID.4 is only available with a 52/77 kWh battery. The 52 is a bit too small with a range of 213 miles (the 58 kWh in the ID.3 returns 264) and the 77 kWh returns 324 miles which is great but it’s a whopping 7K more and it’s also over 40K so no government grant.
Decisions decisions.
I get your drift, but that exact scenario cost me £100 and a SAC last week. Be careful out there!
I’ve driven 17k miles in an ID.3 now, starting last November fhat was pretty mild, but it was a cold snowy winter where I live and drive to frequently.
My long term average is 3.6 miles per kWh, which is mainly A road or M-Way driving and all long trips.
Miles per kWh is temp and weather dependent, but if it starts with a 3, then you’re usually doing ok. Some of the bigger full size Audi SUVs will be worse, as you’d expect given the size and power etc.
When I drove the MG5, I don’t remember any warnings about speeding so it can probably be turned off.
It’s a competent car, great value but it won’t set the pulse racing! The acceleration isn’t too shabby though.
The grant is now £35k maximum, not £40k these days.
I get an average of close to 3.5 in my van which Is generally near the weight limit.
Thanks for the replies guys. I was pleasantly surprised by the acceleration of the MG5. It took off like a scalded cat.
While I’ve only had a few test drives so far, would I be right in thinking that owners of electric cars are more conscious of their driving with regards to miles per kWh than ICE motorists are with MPG?
I was doing my best to keep the cars as close to regen as I could.
Is that a novelty that wears off or not?
It wears off
I used to drive in eco mode but it’s boring
Driving in comfort mode makes little diff in reality and is more fun
All electric cars go like stink
My i3 is faster than most so called hot hatches m3 m4 etc in a sprint
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I remember the salesman giving me the line when I purchased my i3 back in the day, “the fastest accelerating BMW that they make, Sir”… “to 40mph…”
But yes, most EVs are quick off the line, and plenty quick enough for U.K. road use.
Same as mopeds at the lights Vs superbikes unless u really hammer it. Doesn't mean I'd want to be in a moped though.
Well, yes, the point I was making was similar to yours, 0-40 times are not really relevant are they.
The ID.3 has modest by hatchback standards 0-60 times, around 7 secs for the version I have, and a top speed of 100mph and never feels slow in any normal road situation.
The Tesla on the other hand, and plenty of other higher performance EVs, stand more than toe to toe with some very exotic ICE machinery. Daft 0-60 times and limited 155mph top ends.
I do miss the sound of my last serious performance car though, an in-line 5. Never had a V8, but a lot of performance saloons do sound epic!
I think for me, and not that I used to hoon around or anything, I drive much more with economy in mind for sure.
I still like to enjoy the acceleration a bit now and again, especially in the Tesla, but generally speaking I’m in a different mindset nowadays, and happy to just go with the flow of traffic.
Driving around with the energy equivalent of under 1.5 gallons of unleaded petrol does that to me!
You get to learn the best way of enjoying both the performance whilst extracting most miles per kWh after a while. For example in my e-tron it makes little difference to overall efficiency having it in eco mode versus comfort or performance, so I use the latter modes depending on whether the with and kids are on board. Also, contrary to popular thinking one-pedal driving is not the most efficient, as you lose the ability to coast. The e-tron has the flappy paddles for adjusting the amount of regen when lifting off the throttle so I use those a lot to only use the least amount of any kind of braking needed , and it still uses regen for braking if you do need to hit the brake pedal up to something like 0.3G of braking force. I also use the adaptive cruise control whenever I can which helps with efficiency I think, but in any case makes for an effortless drive on motorways and A roads.
I still only manage a maximum of 2.8 m/kWh though as I do like to use the acceleration and it’s not the most efficient EV.
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I think the smoothness encourages you to waft along rather than drive like a lunatic.
It’s slowing down where I notice it most, I’m far more observant and try to put the van into brake mode (it has D and B as well as eco which I never use) so that I use my brakes as little as possible.
Those figures are amazing! The Koreans do have a reputation for making their EVs economical and we are in the middle of summer (allegedly) which is always better for range but >6m/kwhr is way beyond expectations.
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